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	<title>Comments on: Swarm Robots Evolve Deception</title>
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	<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/</link>
	<description>Jonesing For Robot News</description>
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		<title>By: Dennis Sisterson</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-6054</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Sisterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-6054</guid>
		<description>Daniel: (if you haven&#039;t found this out by now!) Man has a gene for altruism not becuase if favours the indivudual human, but because it favours the altruism gene. In other words, if the gene exists in a group of humans, it will tend to survive even if the individual who acts on it - thus aiding the survival of the other hosts - dies as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel: (if you haven&#8217;t found this out by now!) Man has a gene for altruism not becuase if favours the indivudual human, but because it favours the altruism gene. In other words, if the gene exists in a group of humans, it will tend to survive even if the individual who acts on it &#8211; thus aiding the survival of the other hosts &#8211; dies as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-6046</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-6046</guid>
		<description>@BobOmb

Linux is powered by rat brains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@BobOmb</p>
<p>Linux is powered by rat brains.</p>
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		<title>By: matt m</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-6028</link>
		<dc:creator>matt m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 05:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-6028</guid>
		<description>the evolution of the bot behavior was most likely carried out inside a simulator.

there exist several retail and open source simulation environments for robot populations that can even model things like camera/sensor noise and physics (i.e. collision detection). there are even ways to simulate interference on communications links (radio, optical, etc).

of course, nothing beats using some of your grant money to buy some swarm bots and watch the cute little guys eke out their meager existence, not to mention it looks good in front of the grant committee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the evolution of the bot behavior was most likely carried out inside a simulator.</p>
<p>there exist several retail and open source simulation environments for robot populations that can even model things like camera/sensor noise and physics (i.e. collision detection). there are even ways to simulate interference on communications links (radio, optical, etc).</p>
<p>of course, nothing beats using some of your grant money to buy some swarm bots and watch the cute little guys eke out their meager existence, not to mention it looks good in front of the grant committee.</p>
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		<title>By: evotech</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-5626</link>
		<dc:creator>evotech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-5626</guid>
		<description>And so, the Autobots and the Decepticons where created</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And so, the Autobots and the Decepticons where created</p>
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		<title>By: BobOmb</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-5236</link>
		<dc:creator>BobOmb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-5236</guid>
		<description>@ME and Daniel

Rat brains? where did you get that from? There&#039;s no mention of rat brains any where in this article or any of the previous articles. It mentions Linux in the earlier swarm bot articles, nothing about rat brains.  Checkout http://www.swarm-bots.org/ if you don&#039;t believe me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ME and Daniel</p>
<p>Rat brains? where did you get that from? There&#8217;s no mention of rat brains any where in this article or any of the previous articles. It mentions Linux in the earlier swarm bot articles, nothing about rat brains.  Checkout <a href="http://www.swarm-bots.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.swarm-bots.org/</a> if you don&#8217;t believe me.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-4641</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-4641</guid>
		<description>@Daniel:

Altruism does favor the individual though. It can create an system of reciprocity. If the robots(or anything really with a &#039;social&#039; function) was able to inform one or more of the group it existed within of the presence of food/resources then this behavior would be reciprocated to it at some point. By working as a group searching for and sharing food the group increases its efficiency. This idea goes even further to form the basis of human rights. Wikipedia has a decent article on the ethic of reciprocity if you want to look.

The system presented with the robots is perhaps too simple to show this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Daniel:</p>
<p>Altruism does favor the individual though. It can create an system of reciprocity. If the robots(or anything really with a &#8217;social&#8217; function) was able to inform one or more of the group it existed within of the presence of food/resources then this behavior would be reciprocated to it at some point. By working as a group searching for and sharing food the group increases its efficiency. This idea goes even further to form the basis of human rights. Wikipedia has a decent article on the ethic of reciprocity if you want to look.</p>
<p>The system presented with the robots is perhaps too simple to show this.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-4619</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-4619</guid>
		<description>So then this article is a deception, because Robots have nothing literally to do with it, if their parent was a rat.

Altruism is a characteristic that does not favor the individual. so how is it that altruistic characteristics are found in man when there is no advantage to their long term survival?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So then this article is a deception, because Robots have nothing literally to do with it, if their parent was a rat.</p>
<p>Altruism is a characteristic that does not favor the individual. so how is it that altruistic characteristics are found in man when there is no advantage to their long term survival?</p>
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		<title>By: ME</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-4611</link>
		<dc:creator>ME</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-4611</guid>
		<description>I think the part your both forgetting, and the article left out...

These robots are connected to rat brains. There are light rings on the floor, and if a robot is near one, the bot triggers the pleasure and food sensors in the brain making that a good spot to be. And of course various senors are hooked on the brain to do this. This is a merging of robotics and animal. AKA bioengineering. 

This of course you can&#039;t make a software program do. One could argue that they should have just simulated this by have the brains control a virtual character... but the purpose is also proof of concept...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the part your both forgetting, and the article left out&#8230;</p>
<p>These robots are connected to rat brains. There are light rings on the floor, and if a robot is near one, the bot triggers the pleasure and food sensors in the brain making that a good spot to be. And of course various senors are hooked on the brain to do this. This is a merging of robotics and animal. AKA bioengineering. </p>
<p>This of course you can&#8217;t make a software program do. One could argue that they should have just simulated this by have the brains control a virtual character&#8230; but the purpose is also proof of concept&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Ackerman</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-4244</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Ackerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-4244</guid>
		<description>From the article: &quot;Furthermore, we show that the use of realistic models can lead to dynamics (such as the stability of deceptive communication) that one would not observe in simplified mathematical or game-theoretical models.&quot;

You could argue that a complex enough software model would display the same behaviors, but little things like whether or not a bot is quite close enough to another bot to see a signal light varies slightly from robot to robot, which introduces a little bit of variation and randomness (realistic factors) to the study, and different and/or more complex behaviors can emerge from things like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the article: &#8220;Furthermore, we show that the use of realistic models can lead to dynamics (such as the stability of deceptive communication) that one would not observe in simplified mathematical or game-theoretical models.&#8221;</p>
<p>You could argue that a complex enough software model would display the same behaviors, but little things like whether or not a bot is quite close enough to another bot to see a signal light varies slightly from robot to robot, which introduces a little bit of variation and randomness (realistic factors) to the study, and different and/or more complex behaviors can emerge from things like that.</p>
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		<title>By: geraldt</title>
		<link>http://www.botjunkie.com/2009/08/19/swarm-robots-evolve-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-4243</link>
		<dc:creator>geraldt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.botjunkie.com/?p=2218#comment-4243</guid>
		<description>I wonder why for experiments like this, they bother with the swarm of little robots? Couldn&#039;t it all be simulated in software inside one cheap desktop computer? Oh, cute little things that run around the floor with coloured lights - I guess I can see the attraction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder why for experiments like this, they bother with the swarm of little robots? Couldn&#8217;t it all be simulated in software inside one cheap desktop computer? Oh, cute little things that run around the floor with coloured lights &#8211; I guess I can see the attraction.</p>
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